I think Louise Perry is right when she says that the main character’s reaction that she hasn’t achieved any great adventure in life is a bit depressing. But it is pretty real. Both women and men come to a point in life where they look back with some dissatisfaction. The classic mid-life crisis where a man buys a sports car is perhaps more visible. But I don’t think that should be a knock on the movie. Perhaps because of my age, that part connected with me.
I've thought about this in terms of short and long-term mating strategies, which I think map pretty well to thrill-seeking and intimacy-seeking. We all have some ancestors that followed each strategy, and each strategy can be better for leaving descendants for certain people in certain environments.
But the important point is that a long-term or intimacy strategy becomes more difficult as more people around you pursue a short-term or thrill-seeking strategy. This is true for both men and women but for partially different reasons. So people instinctively seek environments with social norms that promote whichever strategy they want to pursue (or want their kids to pursue). Mostly this happens subconsciously. I think that preferred mating strategy is actually an important undercurrent in the abortion debate (abortion reduces the cost of a thrill-seeking strategy), though most people don't realize it because they rationalize their position in other ways.
The story does not ring true for me. I was single for 18 years between marriages and dated many women. Never met one that was looking primarily for sex, nor who would ever have considered paying for it. Many were quite open to sex even on slight acquaintance, but it was clearly in hopes that a relationship might emerge. There is some truth to the old saying "men put up with the relationship for the sex, women put up with the sex for the relationship."
be like zizek, don’t let the fact that you haven’t seen the film get in the way of your interpretation (i mean this unironically, and he himself has claimed this at times).
Thanks for a thought- AND conversation-provoking post. I like how Perry starts out noting that 99% of those who pay for sex are men - since most male prostitutes are gay toy-boys, young and well-hung, preferably. Men and women really do have different sex drives.
I was expecting a reference to Erica Jong's iconic "Fear of Flying", with the Zipless Fuck - more read in my high school/ college circles than either of the two books cited. Also "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex*".
(Substack's lack of <i> italics </i> in comments is a negative.)
I thought the phrases "thrill-seeking" & "intimacy-seeking" were quite good, with hetero men about 80-20 and women about 20-80. But a huge part of "intimacy" is exclusivity. So "promiscuous" vs "monogamous" might be better - there are many hot young babes who seem to be thrill seekers, but are more monogamous. Maybe 95% women look for intimacy+fidelity in a marriage, tho many settle for thrilling & even not-so-thrilling sex without commitment (=without love).
Serial monogamy has long been seen as the most realistic balance for most college folk - few college graduates have only ever had sex with their spouse (or spouse to-be), but most stay mostly faithful afterward and even more have faithfulness in themselves AND their spouse as the ideal "optimal" (not to mention, CAN'T mention "moral").
What IS depressing is that so many marriages and relationships fail to stress the need for the couple to learn, together, how to have the woman achieve orgasm and be sexually satisfied. Many women have, still, never had an orgasm with their male lover. I suspect most college women have figured this out, but haven't read much on it, and read less now that I'm happily married.
Sad for men not to realize that most women can have a fine, excellent, even GREAT love-making session without her having an orgasm. Men don't feel satisfied, and do feel like failures, without orgasm, almost always. Most women do enjoy orgasm, but their satisfaction with the sex depends more on a) the man enjoying her (& orgasm), b) the touching, stroking, pre-sex and c) after-sex cuddling. For men, orgasm is the entire banana split, for women it's just the cherry on top.
If the movie helps more couples have more adventures & thrills, together, the movie would be positive. We need a "normal" culture where married monogamous couples stay happily faithful, and raise good kids (who will inevitably do some rebellion), and that norm is recognized as "optimal", as well as being often, tho not always, achieved.
I’ve seen the movie but not read the book.
I think Louise Perry is right when she says that the main character’s reaction that she hasn’t achieved any great adventure in life is a bit depressing. But it is pretty real. Both women and men come to a point in life where they look back with some dissatisfaction. The classic mid-life crisis where a man buys a sports car is perhaps more visible. But I don’t think that should be a knock on the movie. Perhaps because of my age, that part connected with me.
I've thought about this in terms of short and long-term mating strategies, which I think map pretty well to thrill-seeking and intimacy-seeking. We all have some ancestors that followed each strategy, and each strategy can be better for leaving descendants for certain people in certain environments.
But the important point is that a long-term or intimacy strategy becomes more difficult as more people around you pursue a short-term or thrill-seeking strategy. This is true for both men and women but for partially different reasons. So people instinctively seek environments with social norms that promote whichever strategy they want to pursue (or want their kids to pursue). Mostly this happens subconsciously. I think that preferred mating strategy is actually an important undercurrent in the abortion debate (abortion reduces the cost of a thrill-seeking strategy), though most people don't realize it because they rationalize their position in other ways.
The story does not ring true for me. I was single for 18 years between marriages and dated many women. Never met one that was looking primarily for sex, nor who would ever have considered paying for it. Many were quite open to sex even on slight acquaintance, but it was clearly in hopes that a relationship might emerge. There is some truth to the old saying "men put up with the relationship for the sex, women put up with the sex for the relationship."
be like zizek, don’t let the fact that you haven’t seen the film get in the way of your interpretation (i mean this unironically, and he himself has claimed this at times).
Thanks for a thought- AND conversation-provoking post. I like how Perry starts out noting that 99% of those who pay for sex are men - since most male prostitutes are gay toy-boys, young and well-hung, preferably. Men and women really do have different sex drives.
I was expecting a reference to Erica Jong's iconic "Fear of Flying", with the Zipless Fuck - more read in my high school/ college circles than either of the two books cited. Also "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex*".
(Substack's lack of <i> italics </i> in comments is a negative.)
I thought the phrases "thrill-seeking" & "intimacy-seeking" were quite good, with hetero men about 80-20 and women about 20-80. But a huge part of "intimacy" is exclusivity. So "promiscuous" vs "monogamous" might be better - there are many hot young babes who seem to be thrill seekers, but are more monogamous. Maybe 95% women look for intimacy+fidelity in a marriage, tho many settle for thrilling & even not-so-thrilling sex without commitment (=without love).
Serial monogamy has long been seen as the most realistic balance for most college folk - few college graduates have only ever had sex with their spouse (or spouse to-be), but most stay mostly faithful afterward and even more have faithfulness in themselves AND their spouse as the ideal "optimal" (not to mention, CAN'T mention "moral").
What IS depressing is that so many marriages and relationships fail to stress the need for the couple to learn, together, how to have the woman achieve orgasm and be sexually satisfied. Many women have, still, never had an orgasm with their male lover. I suspect most college women have figured this out, but haven't read much on it, and read less now that I'm happily married.
Sad for men not to realize that most women can have a fine, excellent, even GREAT love-making session without her having an orgasm. Men don't feel satisfied, and do feel like failures, without orgasm, almost always. Most women do enjoy orgasm, but their satisfaction with the sex depends more on a) the man enjoying her (& orgasm), b) the touching, stroking, pre-sex and c) after-sex cuddling. For men, orgasm is the entire banana split, for women it's just the cherry on top.
If the movie helps more couples have more adventures & thrills, together, the movie would be positive. We need a "normal" culture where married monogamous couples stay happily faithful, and raise good kids (who will inevitably do some rebellion), and that norm is recognized as "optimal", as well as being often, tho not always, achieved.