To pontificate or not? That is the question. This post rings true in so many ways, with so many sports and hobbies. Cult is the right word. We are cultish, esteem-seeking animals. I’m so tired of that part of us. It’s why I choose not to participate in competitive sports. This same phenomenon exists in academia, in discourse platforms like Substack, in the corporation. Anyone ever interview for a job at Apple? This is an opportunity for successful engineers to show how great they are. “Are you willing to sacrifice your life for the cult? It’s all or nothing if you come work for us. What’s it going to be?” Listen to Elon: “We want dedicated engineers willing to put in long hours.” Sorry man. I have a family and a life beyond this thing, and what’s so great about Mars anyway? Earth is way better. You go to Mars; I’ll stay here.
Activities with an eight year old.
1. Go to the library and pick out books together.
2. Make crêpes together.
3. Watch The Secret Lives of Animals on Apple TV+.
4. Socratic dialogue, pondering the fact that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Or, “Who was the first person?”
5. Design something on paper together; discuss the design; finalize the design; create a parts list; buy the parts at Home Depot; and build it together. Could be as simple as a planter box. Or try to make a kite.
6. Can you fit all the dirty dishes in the dishwasher? This is a game. Don’t make it too competitive.
7. Provide him or her with fort building materials.
8. Make popcorn using a Whirly-Pop popcorn maker
9. Wall sit for 120 seconds or push-up competition.
10. Make your own bookmarks using the right card paper, water colors and then laminate. Then consider turning this project or a similar project into a business.
Sports follows a similar pattern. My daughters played recreational soccer but by the time they were about 10 or so, it became clear you either had to dedicate yourself to a competitive club or drop out. We chose for them to focus on dancing instead, another very intensive hobby.
OTOH, one of those daughters is involved in competitive collegiate ballroom dance. Every year the team holds events to attract new dancers. Rookie dances are a thing. They even make sure they include social dancing time at their events. Sadly, a social ballroom dance on Saturday night seems to be a thing of the past.
Bringing this back to economics, you'd think model manufacturers would realize they need to continuously develop new customers. You may make the bulk of your profit from high end models but if you don't have a low end entry level product, that gravy train will come to an end. Every tech company I've worked for make sure they had loss-leader entry level products for just this reason. Why do you suppose hobby model companies are behaving differently? What's their incentive to ignore the long term?
How many model companies are privately owned? If the owners are thinking about the grandkids taking over a thriving company, they'll take a certain amount of losses to keep people entering the hobby. If not (or worse "The little bastards can deal what I dealt with, it builds character") they'll go for immediate/medium term profit.
I suspect that in many cases the answers mixed but maybe lots of these manufacturers realize their entry level products aren't competitive? Kids today have a lot of different entertainment options that we didn't.
My child of a similar age suggests books and legos. I will add that eight is old enough to be involved in the life of the household, whatever that entails — cooking together, going to the hardware store to buy the part you need for that long-intended project, etc. There are also a number of balsa-wood model kits on Amazon that are perhaps less intense than the “grownup” versions.
Reminds me of kids sports. Once they get older than 8 to 12 it very much gravitates towards the best athletes and weeds out kids who just want to play a fun sport.
- Legos are great, though a bit expensive (check out the Technic sets)
- Jigsaw puzzles are "old school" but really enjoyable to do together, if he's into that sort of thing
- One thing I remember about visiting my grandparents was the novelty. Everything there was different from the food to the books and games on the shelf to the knickknacks around the house to the music available in the CD player. As a kid, I really enjoyed exploring this foreign world.
- My kids are always wanting stories from when I was a kid. Your grandson might be interested in stories, photos, or home videos from his mother's/father's childhood.
I’ve thought adults doing jigsaw puzzles = mildly embarrassing, but my high-strung mother finds it very soothing (and she no longer can get far with a crossword - the bridge problem on the other hand, she's still cracker jack at that - 10,000 hours baby!). And further I have seen that it is something that prompts people of different generations to sit together and thus converse. In fact, it’s even a bit of an icebreaker for the grown cousins who don’t see each other often, to sit over a puzzle at their grandparents’ house.
I’ll never independently be into puzzle working - well, it will be a sign if I am - but in my own competitive fashion, my goal is to purchase the perfect (hard-but-not-boringly hard, interesting to look at, attractive to have out on the table) puzzle for the others to do.
Recently Mother greatly enjoyed Cobble Hill “Jardiniere” - a Christmas gift- while the grandkids enjoyed “Adventure Storytime”.
She follows her grandson’s rule - no looking at the box - which makes it last longer.
If you want to go with entry level models, look for Japanese kits online. Modeling is much less niche there apparently and there are tons of low cost kits that are easy to put together with model knife, clippers and a little sand paper, but take some time.
Alternately, head to Hobby Lobby. Their model section has lots of the standard older style models, some random modern kits, and a ton of “build a balsa solar system/working clock/diner” that are nice for basic work. My 11 year old daughter loves that stuff and can put them together without help.
Same for a clock, or a robot arm - or trebuchet for those who want a catapult with a more sophisticated operation. Ideally, you know enough in advance to get a kit more closely connected to what the young person is already interested in.
I wonder if this isn't a feature of 'older' but rather 'declining'? Of course, to be in decline something can't be new, but it isn't a necessary feature of aging.
As a group activity declines, only the most committed members of that group remain. When political causes become less popular, they also tend to become more extreme because the extremists are most likely to stay. This also reinforces the decline because extremists are off-putting to most people, the same way trying to get into model building or bridge when everyone's an expert is off-putting to most people.
Lego (a great activity for an 8.5 year old) is old, and it has definitely cultivated a group of super-intense, expert builders. But Lego is also growing in popularity (or remaining popular), so it's still easy to join. I would also posit that it's easier to become an expert, because of this--it's easier to climb a pyramid than to scale an upside-down pyramid. (In this case, the breadth of the base is the opportunity for novices to engage).
Reading, an old hobby, hasn't followed this narrowing; kids literature is as great as it ever has been, if not better. Comic books, though, have--read an issue of Fantastic Four from 1962 and you'll see the effort the writers put in to make the comics accessible. Read an issue from 2012 and you'll find yourself hip-deep in a convoluted narrative that references a bajillion things. Kid lit is expanding or holding steady, comic books are nowhere near their peak in popularity and cater to their existing base.
To continue to write an unnecessarily long comment, look at trading card games. You can find a committed playbase for just about any game ever released, whether it's still being printed or not. But Magic: the Gathering, the oldest of these, still makes an effort to grow, often by doing things that piss off the existing fan base in favor of bringing in new eyes. Because of that, it's easier to learn and get good at Magic (or Pokemon) than it is, say, Star Wars: CCG or Legend of the 5-Rings, which are newer but with no good entry point.
This pattern reminds me of what happened to jazz music from the 40s to the 60s. From accessible dance music for the masses to something very different aimed at only the most diligent listener.
I just took a look, and plastic models look to be completely unchanged from when I was a kid in the 80s. They are still available for a variety of skill levels. In the internet age the *selection* available at your local brick-and-mortar store is probably worse, but you can order the simple kits online rather easily.
On Claude's affirmation of your observation: the current crop of LLMs will bend over backwards to agree with you, confirm your biases, and stroke your ego. Of course it agreed with you.
Revell. Monogram. WWII aircraft models. We'd buy them at a hobby shop. Remember the decals? Soak them in water and carefully align them onto the plane wings.
To pontificate or not? That is the question. This post rings true in so many ways, with so many sports and hobbies. Cult is the right word. We are cultish, esteem-seeking animals. I’m so tired of that part of us. It’s why I choose not to participate in competitive sports. This same phenomenon exists in academia, in discourse platforms like Substack, in the corporation. Anyone ever interview for a job at Apple? This is an opportunity for successful engineers to show how great they are. “Are you willing to sacrifice your life for the cult? It’s all or nothing if you come work for us. What’s it going to be?” Listen to Elon: “We want dedicated engineers willing to put in long hours.” Sorry man. I have a family and a life beyond this thing, and what’s so great about Mars anyway? Earth is way better. You go to Mars; I’ll stay here.
Activities with an eight year old.
1. Go to the library and pick out books together.
2. Make crêpes together.
3. Watch The Secret Lives of Animals on Apple TV+.
4. Socratic dialogue, pondering the fact that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Or, “Who was the first person?”
5. Design something on paper together; discuss the design; finalize the design; create a parts list; buy the parts at Home Depot; and build it together. Could be as simple as a planter box. Or try to make a kite.
6. Can you fit all the dirty dishes in the dishwasher? This is a game. Don’t make it too competitive.
7. Provide him or her with fort building materials.
8. Make popcorn using a Whirly-Pop popcorn maker
9. Wall sit for 120 seconds or push-up competition.
10. Make your own bookmarks using the right card paper, water colors and then laminate. Then consider turning this project or a similar project into a business.
Sports follows a similar pattern. My daughters played recreational soccer but by the time they were about 10 or so, it became clear you either had to dedicate yourself to a competitive club or drop out. We chose for them to focus on dancing instead, another very intensive hobby.
OTOH, one of those daughters is involved in competitive collegiate ballroom dance. Every year the team holds events to attract new dancers. Rookie dances are a thing. They even make sure they include social dancing time at their events. Sadly, a social ballroom dance on Saturday night seems to be a thing of the past.
Bringing this back to economics, you'd think model manufacturers would realize they need to continuously develop new customers. You may make the bulk of your profit from high end models but if you don't have a low end entry level product, that gravy train will come to an end. Every tech company I've worked for make sure they had loss-leader entry level products for just this reason. Why do you suppose hobby model companies are behaving differently? What's their incentive to ignore the long term?
How many model companies are privately owned? If the owners are thinking about the grandkids taking over a thriving company, they'll take a certain amount of losses to keep people entering the hobby. If not (or worse "The little bastards can deal what I dealt with, it builds character") they'll go for immediate/medium term profit.
I suspect that in many cases the answers mixed but maybe lots of these manufacturers realize their entry level products aren't competitive? Kids today have a lot of different entertainment options that we didn't.
My child of a similar age suggests books and legos. I will add that eight is old enough to be involved in the life of the household, whatever that entails — cooking together, going to the hardware store to buy the part you need for that long-intended project, etc. There are also a number of balsa-wood model kits on Amazon that are perhaps less intense than the “grownup” versions.
My nephew loved remote control cars at that age. Buy two and race him in an empty parking lot somewhere (assuming it's not too cold).
Reminds me of kids sports. Once they get older than 8 to 12 it very much gravitates towards the best athletes and weeds out kids who just want to play a fun sport.
Indoor ideas for an eight year old:
- Legos are great, though a bit expensive (check out the Technic sets)
- Jigsaw puzzles are "old school" but really enjoyable to do together, if he's into that sort of thing
- One thing I remember about visiting my grandparents was the novelty. Everything there was different from the food to the books and games on the shelf to the knickknacks around the house to the music available in the CD player. As a kid, I really enjoyed exploring this foreign world.
- My kids are always wanting stories from when I was a kid. Your grandson might be interested in stories, photos, or home videos from his mother's/father's childhood.
I’ve thought adults doing jigsaw puzzles = mildly embarrassing, but my high-strung mother finds it very soothing (and she no longer can get far with a crossword - the bridge problem on the other hand, she's still cracker jack at that - 10,000 hours baby!). And further I have seen that it is something that prompts people of different generations to sit together and thus converse. In fact, it’s even a bit of an icebreaker for the grown cousins who don’t see each other often, to sit over a puzzle at their grandparents’ house.
I’ll never independently be into puzzle working - well, it will be a sign if I am - but in my own competitive fashion, my goal is to purchase the perfect (hard-but-not-boringly hard, interesting to look at, attractive to have out on the table) puzzle for the others to do.
Recently Mother greatly enjoyed Cobble Hill “Jardiniere” - a Christmas gift- while the grandkids enjoyed “Adventure Storytime”.
She follows her grandson’s rule - no looking at the box - which makes it last longer.
I second jigsaw puzzles.
If you want to go with entry level models, look for Japanese kits online. Modeling is much less niche there apparently and there are tons of low cost kits that are easy to put together with model knife, clippers and a little sand paper, but take some time.
Alternately, head to Hobby Lobby. Their model section has lots of the standard older style models, some random modern kits, and a ton of “build a balsa solar system/working clock/diner” that are nice for basic work. My 11 year old daughter loves that stuff and can put them together without help.
depending on how nerdy your grandson is maybe it's time to buy a 3d printer
I like the models that actually do something at the end. For example, here is a catapult. About two hours to build and, if you did it right, the catapult works! https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/home/toys-and-games/model-building/71056-da-vinci-model-kits
Same for a clock, or a robot arm - or trebuchet for those who want a catapult with a more sophisticated operation. Ideally, you know enough in advance to get a kit more closely connected to what the young person is already interested in.
I wonder if this isn't a feature of 'older' but rather 'declining'? Of course, to be in decline something can't be new, but it isn't a necessary feature of aging.
As a group activity declines, only the most committed members of that group remain. When political causes become less popular, they also tend to become more extreme because the extremists are most likely to stay. This also reinforces the decline because extremists are off-putting to most people, the same way trying to get into model building or bridge when everyone's an expert is off-putting to most people.
Lego (a great activity for an 8.5 year old) is old, and it has definitely cultivated a group of super-intense, expert builders. But Lego is also growing in popularity (or remaining popular), so it's still easy to join. I would also posit that it's easier to become an expert, because of this--it's easier to climb a pyramid than to scale an upside-down pyramid. (In this case, the breadth of the base is the opportunity for novices to engage).
Reading, an old hobby, hasn't followed this narrowing; kids literature is as great as it ever has been, if not better. Comic books, though, have--read an issue of Fantastic Four from 1962 and you'll see the effort the writers put in to make the comics accessible. Read an issue from 2012 and you'll find yourself hip-deep in a convoluted narrative that references a bajillion things. Kid lit is expanding or holding steady, comic books are nowhere near their peak in popularity and cater to their existing base.
To continue to write an unnecessarily long comment, look at trading card games. You can find a committed playbase for just about any game ever released, whether it's still being printed or not. But Magic: the Gathering, the oldest of these, still makes an effort to grow, often by doing things that piss off the existing fan base in favor of bringing in new eyes. Because of that, it's easier to learn and get good at Magic (or Pokemon) than it is, say, Star Wars: CCG or Legend of the 5-Rings, which are newer but with no good entry point.
This pattern reminds me of what happened to jazz music from the 40s to the 60s. From accessible dance music for the masses to something very different aimed at only the most diligent listener.
I just took a look, and plastic models look to be completely unchanged from when I was a kid in the 80s. They are still available for a variety of skill levels. In the internet age the *selection* available at your local brick-and-mortar store is probably worse, but you can order the simple kits online rather easily.
https://revell.de/en/revell-level-system
On Claude's affirmation of your observation: the current crop of LLMs will bend over backwards to agree with you, confirm your biases, and stroke your ego. Of course it agreed with you.
Revell. Monogram. WWII aircraft models. We'd buy them at a hobby shop. Remember the decals? Soak them in water and carefully align them onto the plane wings.
And then, when we came across some firecrackers and wanted something to blow up, the model plane was perfect!
Oh yeah. Or, douse with gasoline and burn them.
I’ve seen many hobbies with an explosion in materials / courses for beginners. Chess, guitar, woodworking come to mind.
On the other hand this article on model trains is consistent with the narrow /deep hypothesis : https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/luxury-homes/a-hobbyists-death-starts-a-race-to-save-a-railroad-05cb6264
Perhaps there’s a certain critical mass needed and below that, any hobby becomes narrow, deep etc.
Airfix make a Quickbuild range designed for kids as a bridge between lego style brick building and the complex kits you describe. Not sure if you can get Airfix in the US though. https://uk.airfix.com/shop/quick-build/quickbuild-range?langPath=airfix-uk&filters%5Bin_stock%5D=true&filters%5Bmandatory_filter_by%5D%5Bproduct_group%5D=Airfix%20Quickbuild%20Range&page_id=140100&sort-by=8&page=1
Old man yells at cloud