Ed West is right- the proponents of increased immigration and open borders are vastly under-estimating the numbers that will arrive by at least 1 magnitude. If you invite the 3rd world in on the scales we are doing right now, we will end up as a third world country inside of 50 years. You can already see this in the cities of the United States- the squalor is spreading out from the inner core of the cities in a noticeable way.
What are the optimum levels on the trait scales for Narcissism and Psychopathy on a societal level? It reminds me of the question what is the optimum level of pollution? The answer can't be zero when thinking about the reality of tradeoffs. Erik Hoel wrote the gossip trap grappling with why humans didn't get richer and technologically advanced much faster. If you marry this with the self domestication hypothesis that Rob Henderson wrote about in a book review you can construct a story where humans over self domesticated and the pendulum of evolution had to swing back for us to evolve better narcissism and psychopathy to escape the gossip trap. I don't actually know enough psychology or anthropology to call this anything other than incredibly speculative bs. Is the current digital gossip trap of mob behavior coterminous with psychopathy and narcissism amplification and how do these all play off against each other? I do often wonder how much of the issues in the digital world are a window to something deeper and how much is just what algorithms are optimizing for.
This might be fairly banal, too verbose and disjointed, but I went back and listened to a podcast between Razib and Samo Burja on Social Technology from the beginning of 2021 after reading the Clinton Ignatov article. I believe this was informative with regard to Marshall McLuhan's the medium is the message that is embedded within Ignatov's article. The Social Technology framing in context with the consensus of our psychology being formed in the Pleistocene will never stop being an important part of our reality. There being some level of fixity to our psychological makeup seems pretty important because of how it will interact with these new social technologies and where the amalgamation of a solution could come from being far deeper in history. The new social technology of cities was possibly started with, or around the time of, Catalhoyuk 9000 years ago and yet we can look at the middle of the 20th century to the pinnacle of urbanism mixed with Western Society and see the psychological and social problems we must still grapple with before our eyes.
Re: Ed West- is this actually new though? There were more Irish outside of Ireland than in quite a long time ago and German migration to the US in the early 20th century was enormous. Small ethnic group X leaves their homeland and relocates isn't a new story for sure.
I've long thought it odd that people really into dogs (as opposed to those who just enjoy having one for a pet) typically see dogs breeds as having significant differences in intelligence and inherited abilities (tracking, herding, etc.) yet are likely to say such differences between races do not exist.
"It’s why the Brazilianization of the US into a super-diverse society with low social capital, very high inequality and higher risk of political instability is now unstoppable. As time goes by the population tends to become less resistant, partly because their fear of migrants has been eased... and the social pressure to identify with the majority has declined."
He contradicts himself in the same paragraph. Brazilian society is very self-centered, has very few immigrants (even by latinamerican standards), is much less diverse than what the US has become in the last 3 decades, and probably becoming less "diverse" with every new generation.
It also has a very strong streak of regionalism ("us" is here in SP, "them" is there in the Nordeste). But a regionalism which has nothing to do with the blue-red regionalism of the USA.
I do agree with the low social capital of Brazil, but I doubt the USA is even close to Brazil's level.
And about (income?) inequality, these are values of UN R/P 10%, UN R/P 20%, CIA R/P 10%, Gini index according to Wikipedia:
Brazil: 16.5 21.1 16.3 48.9
USA: 18.5 9.4 14.0 41.5
It doesn't seem to me like the USA could get to Brazilian levels of income inequality in the short term.
Ed West is right- the proponents of increased immigration and open borders are vastly under-estimating the numbers that will arrive by at least 1 magnitude. If you invite the 3rd world in on the scales we are doing right now, we will end up as a third world country inside of 50 years. You can already see this in the cities of the United States- the squalor is spreading out from the inner core of the cities in a noticeable way.
And, yes, Ignatov is misinterpreting Peterson's use of "virtualization", in my opinion.
My experience is people also dislike solicited advice.
What are the optimum levels on the trait scales for Narcissism and Psychopathy on a societal level? It reminds me of the question what is the optimum level of pollution? The answer can't be zero when thinking about the reality of tradeoffs. Erik Hoel wrote the gossip trap grappling with why humans didn't get richer and technologically advanced much faster. If you marry this with the self domestication hypothesis that Rob Henderson wrote about in a book review you can construct a story where humans over self domesticated and the pendulum of evolution had to swing back for us to evolve better narcissism and psychopathy to escape the gossip trap. I don't actually know enough psychology or anthropology to call this anything other than incredibly speculative bs. Is the current digital gossip trap of mob behavior coterminous with psychopathy and narcissism amplification and how do these all play off against each other? I do often wonder how much of the issues in the digital world are a window to something deeper and how much is just what algorithms are optimizing for.
This might be fairly banal, too verbose and disjointed, but I went back and listened to a podcast between Razib and Samo Burja on Social Technology from the beginning of 2021 after reading the Clinton Ignatov article. I believe this was informative with regard to Marshall McLuhan's the medium is the message that is embedded within Ignatov's article. The Social Technology framing in context with the consensus of our psychology being formed in the Pleistocene will never stop being an important part of our reality. There being some level of fixity to our psychological makeup seems pretty important because of how it will interact with these new social technologies and where the amalgamation of a solution could come from being far deeper in history. The new social technology of cities was possibly started with, or around the time of, Catalhoyuk 9000 years ago and yet we can look at the middle of the 20th century to the pinnacle of urbanism mixed with Western Society and see the psychological and social problems we must still grapple with before our eyes.
https://unsupervisedlearning.libsyn.com/samo-burja-on-social-technology-china-and-the-foreign-view-of-america
Re: Ed West- is this actually new though? There were more Irish outside of Ireland than in quite a long time ago and German migration to the US in the early 20th century was enormous. Small ethnic group X leaves their homeland and relocates isn't a new story for sure.
Hanania's comments descended into a discussion of whether Asians or Whites were different and/or better as they are both high IQ.
Conclusion, we'll see whether immigration destroys the West faster or low TFR destroys Asia faster.
Re: Henderson
The most difficult part of letting my parents move in is unsolicited advice.
I've long thought it odd that people really into dogs (as opposed to those who just enjoy having one for a pet) typically see dogs breeds as having significant differences in intelligence and inherited abilities (tracking, herding, etc.) yet are likely to say such differences between races do not exist.
"It’s why the Brazilianization of the US into a super-diverse society with low social capital, very high inequality and higher risk of political instability is now unstoppable. As time goes by the population tends to become less resistant, partly because their fear of migrants has been eased... and the social pressure to identify with the majority has declined."
He contradicts himself in the same paragraph. Brazilian society is very self-centered, has very few immigrants (even by latinamerican standards), is much less diverse than what the US has become in the last 3 decades, and probably becoming less "diverse" with every new generation.
It also has a very strong streak of regionalism ("us" is here in SP, "them" is there in the Nordeste). But a regionalism which has nothing to do with the blue-red regionalism of the USA.
I do agree with the low social capital of Brazil, but I doubt the USA is even close to Brazil's level.
And about (income?) inequality, these are values of UN R/P 10%, UN R/P 20%, CIA R/P 10%, Gini index according to Wikipedia:
Brazil: 16.5 21.1 16.3 48.9
USA: 18.5 9.4 14.0 41.5
It doesn't seem to me like the USA could get to Brazilian levels of income inequality in the short term.