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Yancey Ward's avatar

I will play Devil's Advocate. Arnold wrote:

"A schizophrenic and I can both come up with novel word sequences. The schizophrenic is better at generating them. I am better at filtering out the ones that don’t provide meaning."

What is it in you that filters out nonsense from meaning? Would an AI randomly combine words, come up with Lewis Carroll's "Jabberwocky" or Wallace Steven's "The Snowman", and not reject both as nonsense? Right now, it is humans that are doing the real filtering out of what AI produces, and to my way of thinking, humans will still be doing the filtering out 20 years from now by writing the rules for what the AI outputs for consumption.

Carl Pham's avatar

The comment about creativity strikes me as naive, for two reasons: (1) it does not match history. What mashup of previously existing ideas is represented by special relativity, Joule's discovery of the mechanical equivalent of heat, the valence-bond theory of the chemical bond, integral calculus, or the Fourier transform? History is strewn with ideas that came absolutely from the blue, that cannot possibly be described as some mash-up or recombination fo existing ideas. (I mean, *maybe* it has some validity in the area of punditry and fiction writing, where I kind of am inclined to agree there isn't much new under the Sun since Cato the Elder thundered in the Senate about Carthage, but it would be unwise to generalize from this very limited area of human invention to all the areas where we have had, and continue to have, genuinely new ideas.)

(2) If it were true that it were possible to construct sense by filitering nonsense, then LLMs would *already* work that way. It's not hard to create a Perl script that generates endless numbers of random sentences (even grammatical sentences). Surely the easiest way to construct an AI would therefore be to hook such a program to a "filter" that "merely" discards all the nonsense sentences and keeps the good ones? Why wasn't that done in, say, 1975?

But that of course is *not* how LLMs work, and such an approach would be sterile -- because the space of nonsense is *so* much larger, in practice effectively infinitely larger, that even with a guaranteed perfect filter in place (i.e. glossing over the considerably challenge in even defining, let alone building, a filter that reliably sorts sense from nonsense), you simply get lost in the space of nonsense without ever stumbling upon sense. The old aphorism about hoping that 10 million monkeys randomly typing on a typewriter would reproduce Shakespear, and "all" you need to do is have a function to recognize it when they do, comes to mind. There have been similar arguments about protein folding and more speculatively about evolution, but this model in general is naive and doesn't work in practice. I suggest that's *why* LLMs had to approach the problem from entirely the other direction: "begin* with an enormous corpus of sense, generated by human beings, and attempt to detect patterns in it, and then construct other sentences using those discovered patterns. That bypasses the otherwise insurmountable problem of wandering around in an infinite sea of meaninglessness and hoping to stumble on a tiny islet of meaning by accident.

In fact, I suggest we don't know why and how humans are creative. The recombination idea seems naive to me, not to mention out-dated -- it has not succeeded in any area in which it has been applied. So I'm very doubtful we will learn anything about creativity by just making an even larger LLM. We'll need to wait for some genuine creative insight into the problem, it can't be brute forced.

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