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forumposter123@protonmail.com's avatar

Speaking as someone who got really involved in a church group in my late 20s, sexual norms and the purpose of dating were the big dividing lines between the church group and secular society (and hedonism in general). One rejected the sexual revolution and one embraced it.

There were plenty of reasons people were in the church group. Some were lifers brought up in it. Many had undergone a personal trauma that had got them looking for answers. But at the end of the day "where do I meet a decent spouse and start a family" seemed to be either the driving force or at least what was necessary for endurance.

This is the primary reason I think classical liberals and the religious can't ultimately get along, there is a fundamental disagreement on the purpose of life in general and on sexual/familial morality in particular. You can't really have one foot in the sexual revolution and one foot out.

For the religious, the excesses of modernity are the natural consequence of a particular sexual and worldview, not an aberration. For classical liberals sexual freedom is too valuable to give up for any tradeoff. If classical liberals had to choose between premarital sex and wokeness, they will swallow wokeness. You can see it in the fact that the parts of wokeness they hate are the parts that criticize them for their excesses (especially sexual).

Stephen Lindsay's avatar

A very important and insightful post. The outer forms and norms of Christianity also foster the beliefs and ideas of Christianity. Societies are built around ideas and beliefs. As the Christian ideas fade, we face a vacuum of beliefs. Some ideology will eventually win the struggle for the post-Christian supremacy of ideas, and our society will be re-made around those ideas. In the past, it has always been an energetic religion that has arisen from the decay of a declining civilization. It will be interesting to see whether that pattern continues or whether a secular ideology can gain sufficient traction to become a galvanizing force for the emerging society (though we probably won’t live to see the equilibrium).

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