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Joseph's avatar

A conservative would argue that public safety and order are important and fragile social goods. To protect one's society, you need to deal with the fact that a minority of the population has poor impulse control and usually low IQ (low impulse control can frequently lower one's IQ) which leads this group to engage in a variety of anti-social behaviors. The only reliable way society has found to manage this situation is to have laws and mores that are simple to understand, easy to enforce, and apply to everyone equally -- even though high IQ people with good impulse control would be perfectly fine with the freedoms these rules seek to curtail.

Why do we think it is that most "addictive" industries (cigarettes, marijuana, gambling, alcohol) make most of their profit from the addicts?

I am not a conservative but I acknowledge there's more than a kernel of truth there. How does society tolerate freedom for all, while dealing with the negative externalities of a sub-population making consistently poor choices? This is very much a fear of others freedom I suppose.

I wish for a middle ground. I want decriminalization and I don't want a drug war but I want vices heavily taxed to disincentivize use, anti-social behaviors that arise from these choices to be swiftly punished with fines and jail time, and advertising from these industries strictly regulated.

But that seems too hard for our society to pull off. It looks like either you get prohibition or full permissiveness. Doesn't seem like our society has an option called "balance the tradeoffs here".

Not sure what to do about any of that.

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Lupis42's avatar

I would not count legalization a failure so quickly or so easily.

There's a lot of disgust reaction visible in your description from your visit to NY, but if you leave the novelty of this particular behavior aside, and wonder what those people would otherwise be doing, I suspect that on balance, the primary alternatives for the marginal hour of marijuana escapism are likely to be some combination of alcohol, passive entertainment, and various extractive gamble/gaming type activities.

It would be better if we could strike a balance between the illegal regime and the "legal, therefore inherently good" regime, but that balance will take time to evolve. Right now there is still a very strong gap between federal and state law, which means that the sellers are highly resistant to regulation, since they still have to operate on the margins in many ways.

More to the point though, I think "regime in which the state signaled society’s disapproval of marijuana, but possession of marijuana by itself rarely resulted in prison" is a perfect example of something libertarians should be proud of overthrowing. Things for which criminal penalties are possible, but effectively discretionary at several levels come with a huge hidden cost, because much of the enforcement is off books, and takes the form of the state and it's agents exploiting people who either would have simply been charged (if enforcement was common) or not charged (if possession/use was legal). That extralegal opportunity for blackmail was a large, mostly unseen deadweight cost, and a huge stain on the credibility of the legal system, and there will be long term benefits to unwinding it, but that may take a generation or more to show up. Certainly, my generation will take a long time to unwind my generation's shared assumption that a police officer is someone you cannot trust and don't want around.

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