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forumposter123@protonmail.com's avatar

Lessons of Ukraine:

1) The threat of sanctions turned out to be a lot more damaging than the use of sanctions. Russia/China combo seems to be economically self sufficient, with the rest of the BRICS being neutral to hostile.

2) Big ticket items (planes, tanks, ships) all underperformed big time. I suspect that what is happening to the Russian Black Sea Fleet could easily happen to any other nations fleet.

3) I suspect that any country that goes to fight a peer competitor is going to go through a long period of massive error correction. This isn't just a western thing I think China would have massive problems too. Ukraine war feels like the Russo-Japanese war. People should be drawing conclusions from it and yet most armies went into WWI not having fully learned the lessons.

4) The primary goal in Ukraine was for the administration to gain a political boost from a popular war. This was especially important after the Afghanistan debacle.

A secondary but also important objective is a familiar one, to make a lot of money on markup for both goods and services in the defense/natsec industry.

If those things happened to coincide with Ukranian victory, great. If not, it's not western backers that would be left holding the bag. The well being of Ukranians was at best tertiary to the above objectives, it only had correlational power not causational power.

5) There is an assumption that if NATO troops got involved it would be a cake walk. Like sanctions, this may be a case of the threat being worth more than the implementation. Leaving aside the fact that it might being about the use of nukes, who's to say a NATO formation would have any better of a time breaking the Surovikin Line. If modern AA is stronger then AirPower and tanks are deathtraps, why would westerners do much better then the Ukranians.

I suspect that NATO could win in the end, but it's not clear that NATO countries would tolerate the casualties necessary. It's one thing to wave a flag, it's another to die in the mud.

The risk of doing nothing is a humiliation, but one that can be written off. The risks of doing something and failing are everything.

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Neeraj Krishnan's avatar

> The third factor in the West’s defeat is the rest of the world's preference for Russia. It has discovered discreet economic allies everywhere. A new conservative (anti-LGBT) Russian soft power was in full swing

Is this pulled out of his re.. thin air?

"Despite deteriorating relations with most of the international community since the invasion of Ukraine, Russia still maintains support and strong relations with certain countries, such as China, Belarus, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Syria, North Korea, Myanmar, Eritrea, Mali, Zimbabwe, Central African Republic, Afghanistan, Burkina Faso, Burundi, and Niger.

Russia also maintains positive relations with countries that have been described as "Russia-leaning" according to The Economist. These countries include Algeria, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Pakistan, Ethiopia, Sudan, and Uganda."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Russia#:~:text=Despite%20deteriorating%20relations%20with%20most,%2C%20Zimbabwe%2C%20Central%20African%20Republic%2C

The "new conservative (anti-LGBT) soft power" has some fine company indeed.

The young/striving/entrepreneurial around the world flock to American Embassies at the crack of dawn for a chance at a student/work/etc. visa. It is a magnet for talent, and American television and cinema are popular the world over, notwithstanding this bizarre claim of its "modernity seeming quite insane". Its progress in Civil Rights, LGBT rights, protection of individual freedoms, are examples worldwide. Close to 20 countries have liberalized laws in this regard just since Obergefell (not the only causal factor obviously).

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